Methinks you just ignored the medieval Latin verb copio synonym of late medieval Latin verb copiare before I even mention it. Keep misrepresenting my opinion and put words in my mouth to mislead, keep lying to yourself and others if you will. You know, like being totally and utterly impervious to the self-evident truth that the TS of Lirey was seen either as the real burial shroud of Jesus,OR a very clever forgery thereof whether produced by an artist or craftsman or, as I now, believe an alchemist. It has to be one of the most egregious errors of logic I have encountered in a lifetime spent almost entirely in education and research.
Not knowing the gentleman personally,one can only speculate. He had an album devoted entirely to forged stamps, a minority interest, but valid. But there was one prize that eluded him — in philatelic terms the 1 cent British Guiana of which there is one and only one. I personally gave up stamp collecting when I realized it was an obsession, indeed a disease.
Becoming a teenager and discovering the opposite sex helped too.
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- The Western Mail Order Bride Company (Christian Historical Old West Romance).
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- English translation of 'exténuer'?
He has ceased to see the wood for the trees. I have a faster way of checking out variables now in a semi-realistic model system.
I paint the topside and underside of my toes with each new imprinting medium, step onto the lower half of a strip of linen placed horizontally on the floor to get first a LUWU imprint. A compact package can be made of the dual up-and-over imprint that fits nicely into its own jar for Stage 2 chemical development nitric acid vapour. Results from the first footie session are drying on the radiator as I write.
I compared 1 flour 2 egg tempera and 3 a mixture of flour and egg tempera The egg tempera was simply beaten egg yolk, as used as a vehicle for pigments by medieval artists before oil paints became available. I am NOT using pigments, needless to say, but Stage 2 chemical development to intensify colour yellow or brown. No, CF, using egg tempera should NOT be taken to mean that this blogger subscribes to your eccentric ideas, regardless of what drives them.
Egg tempera was simply available in the 14th century as an agent that sticks well to canvas, linen etc. Now I get confused. This is because the endings of the verb have been calculated by a computer, and cannot be relied upon as accurate reflections of usage. This was a bit too much! You are right.
I did mix all my links up and got totally confused here. I also mixed up most of my links.
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In sum, yes I confess I got really tired and confused! CE and there are just a few occurrences of the its perfect active indicative e. Whence my personal translation of the key passage:. What is the third singular person pluperfect active indicative of the late Latin verb copio, copiare? The only snag is, it does not appear at all in Latin document prior to CE. There are only very sporadic occurrences in the midth c. It suffices more or less to refer to the text in the comment above provided by Colin on May 4 at am.
He is reporting what he believes the investigations of Bishop Henri found some 34 years previously, and he was writing in Latin. He is claiming that Bishop Henri inquired into the matter, and who did Henri consult? Because the gospels did not mention it, and if it had occurred then the evangelists would have done so! That is a fairly specious kind of reasoning, In the situation of the early Church there were excellent grounds for not mentioning certain matters that needed to be kept secret disciplina arcana.
Note that no names of specific theologians who Henri is said to have consulted are mentioned. Note that this artist remains unnamed, unknown, and Latin having no definite article, it could have been anyone who painted any cloth like the Shroud some 35 years previously. Not a citation, no reference from his episcopal archives, no quotation from what Bishop Henri had written, all indirect reporting.
Demonstrative Pronouns and Determiners in French
He may well be a hostile witness, as his cathedral is losing pilgrims to a tiny village church, and is badly in need of cash for major repairs. A reading of this encyclical will demonstrate the directions that many churchmen of the time sought to achieve. Quite a lot of what Max, has to say, and most of what daveb has to say, is comprehensible, coherent, and even cogent, in its way. Bonnet-Eymard knew very well that the kind of reproduction or copy suggested by depinxerat is not a depiction of a depiction imitatio , but a depiction of a person or scene.
Not mentioning dates and times, witnesses, theologians, artists etc. Does anyone have the text of the whole letter, or is that single out-of-context little snippet all we have? The fact is BBE based his translation on the draft Champagne ms , folio and not on its editing Champagne ms , folio Methinks it is a providential image resulting from a dynamic process the Second Temple period Halakha that was influenced by the sacred texts of the Judean tradition as interpreted by generations of rabbis.
8 French phrases you should be using right now
In the key passage, as translated in the both texts one in French — U. Another Christ shroud? Un autre suaire? What we are left with if we take into account the translation entropy of both the longer and shorter versions in terms of draft and editing, is the following:.
And further to attract the multitude so that money might cunningly be wrung from them, pretended miracles were worked, certain men being hired to represent themselves as healed at the moment of the exhibition of the shroud, which all believed to be the shroud of our Lord.
Noveritis quod nos visis et auditis litteris nobilis viri D. Volentesque huiusmodi cultum in quantum possumus ampliare divinum, dictas litteras ac omnia et singulain eisdem contenta, declarata, et narrata tamquam rite et canonice prout per legitima documenta fuimus et sumus inforrnati, acta dataque et concessa ac etiam ordinata fuisse, laudamus, ratificamus, approbamus, ac in et super eisdem nostrum prebemus consensum, auctoritatem et decretum.
Mensis maii. Some time since in this diocese of Troyes the Dean of a certain collegiate church, to wit, that of Lirey, falsely and deceitfully, being consumed with the passion of avarice, and not from any motive of devotion but only of gain, procured for his church a certain cloth cunningly painted, upon which by a clever sleight of hand was depicted the twofold image of one man, that is to say, the back and the front, he falsely declaring and pretending that this was the actual shroud in which our Savior Jesus Christ was enfolded in the tomb, and upon which the whole likeness of the Savior had remained thus impressed with the wounds which he bore.
This story was put about not only in the kingdom of France, but so to speak, throughout the world, so that from all parts people came together to view it. The Lord Henry of Poitiers, of pious memory, then Bishop of Troyes, becoming aware of this, and urged by many prudent persons to take action, as indeed was his duty in the exercise of his ordinary jurisdiction, set himself earnestly to work to fathom the truth of this matter.
Eventually, after diligent inquiry and examination, he discovered the fraud and how the said cloth had been cunningly painted, the truth being attested by the artist who had painted it, to wit, that it was a work of human skill and not miraculously wrought or bestowed. Accordingly, after taking mature counsel with wise theologians and men of the law, seeing that he neither ought nor could allow the matter to pass, he began to institute formal proceedings against the said Dean and his accomplices in order to root out this false persuasion.
They, seeing their wickedness discovered, hid away the said cloth so that the Ordinary could not find it, and they kept it hidden afterwards for thirty-four years or thereabouts down to the present year. And now again the present Dean of the said church with fraudulent intent and for the purpose of gain, suggested, as it is reported, to the Lord Geoffrey de Charny, Knight, and the temporal lord of the place, to have the said cloth replaced in the said church, that by a renewal of the pilgrimage the church might be enriched with the offerings made by the faithful.
Then the said Lord Cardinal, without entirely approving the petition, but probably acting on the facts before him and so far prudently, granted to the petitioner by Apostolic authority that without asking leave of the Ordinary or of any other person he might set up this picture or figure of the shroud of our Lord in the said church or in any other decent place.
Moreover, it is currently reported amongst them that it has been approved by the Apostolic See by means of the letters of the said Lord Cardinal. He, however, refusing obedience and lodging an appeal, in defiance of the prohibition went on with the exhibition as before. Moreover, the knight, maintaining and defending this behavior, by holding the said cloth with his own hands on a certain solemn feast, and showing it to the people with the observances above described, caused himself, by a royal warrant [salvagardia], to be put in formal possession and occupation of the said cloth and of the right of exhibiting it, and had this notified to me; and so under cover of the appeal as well as of the said royal warrant this delusion is shielded and propagated, to the contempt of the Church, scandal of the people, and peril of souls—all of which I am powerless to remedy—nay more, to the defamation of my above-named predecessor who denounced the abuse in his time, and of myself who to the best of my poor ability am also anxious to take such prudent action as I may.
But, alas! The scandal is upheld and defended and its supporters cause it to be spread abroad among the people that I am acting through jealousy and cupidity and to obtain possession of the cloth for myself, just as similar reports were circulated before against my predecessor; while, on the other hand, others aver that I move too half-heartedly in the matter and that I make myself a laughing-stock by allowing the abuse to continue. This authorization of his by no means conceded that the cloth could be exposed with publicity or venerated, but only that it might be restored to or lodged in the said church or some other decent place.
Indeed it is a wonder to all who know the facts of the case that the opposition which hampers me in these proceedings comes from the Church, from which quarter I should have looked for vigorous support, nay, rather have expected punishment if I had shown myself slothful or remiss. But whereas the canon law requires me to see that no man be imposed upon by false representations and documents for purposes of gain, and because I am certain that this Brief was obtained by suggestion of what is false and suppression of the truth, and that otherwise it would never have been issued, while I was neither cited nor heard, especially as the resumption ought to stand in my favor that I would not interfere in such a cause without reason, or disturb any man in any practice of devotion which was harmless and free from extravagance, I do most confidently trust that your Holiness will bear with me if in view of the foregoing facts I still oppose the said exposition until I have fuller instructions from your Holiness yourself, now better informed of the truth of the case.
I offer myself here as ready to supply all information sufficient to remove any doubt concerning the facts alleged both from public report and otherwise, in order to exonerate myself and also to discharge my conscience in a matter which I have greatly at heart. Radio silence! CE, which likely means in the 14th c. CE, the verbs transcribo, transcrivere for a text and depingo, depingere or even depicto, depictere for an image were most currently used in the perfect and pluperfect active indicatives NOT the verb copio, copiare.
No Max. There are no instances of depingo meaning copy in the sense required. There may be no instances of anything else meaning copy either, but that is not evidence that depingo was a substitute. Someone please tell Ian Wilson so that he can revise his text for any new edition of the Shroud. Better leave out the tetradiplon issue altogether as it only refers to the cloth BEFORE Christ wiped his face with it and there is no indication in the text that it was refolded as such afterwards. Having ploughed my way through examples of Greek words where tetra was added, the most likely translation is doubled four times- which is exactly the way they folded the Parthenon cloth as seen in the Parthenon frieze in The British Museum.
Better just to edit all this out to save Wilson further loss of credibility among the Byzantine experts. One of them should write a book debunking the Shroud — could be a good seller. Quite frankly they cannot be bothered as none of them think that it is remotely important in comparison to other artefacts that they deal with and none of them that I have had contact with consider that the Shroud is pre-medieval anyway.
Sampath- there does not have to be an order in which we get rid of hypotheses. This kind of thing should be simple to sort out because it is so obviously wrong. The painting issue is much more difficult to disprove as we have the description of the Shroud being painted to put alongside the text and we have lots of depictions which show the images much more powerful than they are now and it is hard to know any other way of producing such strong images other than paint as documented in the medieval manuals.
We also know that painted surfaces on linens disintegrated very easily and so the question, which I leave to experts in conservation of textiles to sort out, is what is left on the linen when the pigments fall off a painted cloth after many centuries. This is the key question to focus on. Meanwhile my own work involves trying to put out articles which will arouse debate on the Shroud with the hope of at least getting some specialists involved on matters such as the weave and the iconography of the images.
How painted image became a Negative Image after flaking off the pigments? Shroud of Turin image is not a painted one. History is based on documents. And there are different kinds of documents. Some are more reliable than others and each epoch has their own levels of reliability. In the Ancient world there were not notarial records or videotapes of every relevant event. In addition, a massive amount of documents have been lost and the majority of data are known by copies of copies. There is not a single reason why the evangelists have to conceal the existence of this marvellous legacy of their Lord, the Holly Shroud.
There is not a single reason why this marvellous relic was not registered in the inventory of the relics when the chapel of Lirey was consecrated. There is not any reason to doubt of the authenticity of this letter.